CIIS Public Programs Podcast

Transcript

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[Cheerful theme music begins] 

This is the CIIS Public Programs Podcast, featuring talks and conversations recorded live by the Public Programs department of California Institute of Integral Studies, a non-profit university located in San Francisco on unceded Ramaytush Ohlone Land. 

In this episode, our University’s President Brock Blomberg and Provost Kathy Littles have a unique conversation exploring the present and future of CIIS and what is core to its mission of integral education. President Blomberg and Provost Littles share insights on the current moment at CIIS and beyond, as well as the role higher education plays in our world today. They discuss the creativity, innovation, and expansion required to meet the needs of students and faculty in higher education while responding to trends in an evolving marketplace. 

This episode was recorded during an in-person and live streamed event at California Institute of Integral Studies on January 24th, 2023. To find out more about CIIS and public programs like this one, visit our website and connect with us on social media @ciispubprograms. 

[Theme music concludes] 

President Blomberg: Well, I'm delighted for this opportunity for us to chat, I always love having my office next to Kathy's, so now we get a chance to have no walls between us, as we talk a little bit. I think we talked a little bit in the beginning just sharing, you know, what drew us to CIIS, and maybe I'll ask you first, your journey a little bit how you came to be our Provost. 

Provost Littles: Well, was a long journey, but one that I'm just so incredibly proud of, and really shows that if you're open to the possibilities, anything is possible. I came to CIIS, I believe around 2006, at a time in my life where my mother was very ill, and I had literally just finished up my coursework at UC Davis, and my mother was diagnosed with cancer. The bottom line, the doctor very gently told me, you need to make some preparation because she's not going to live for very much longer. [Blomberg: Mm.] Well, she ended up going into remission, living three years, but in the meantime, I had to get a job to support myself in preparation. [both laugh] I applied to two jobs, one for the city of Oakland running cultural funding, and there was an opening in the School of Undergraduate Studies for a core faculty member. Yes, very strong school, and I got them both. I didn't get the core faculty position; I was asked to be an adjunct. That began my journey at CIIS.  

I'm so grateful for the experience of being an adjunct, I was an adjunct for 10 years here at CIIS. As time progressed, I was always a pretty good administrator, and our wonderful Vice Provost Michelle Eng asked me to apply for the director position for Transformative Inquiry, which was at the time I believe our only online program here at CIIS. So, I ran that, became the director, wonderful faculty. That's where I really honed in on who we are, our mission, our values. The older I get, I'm very much tied to, I have to be in a place that has a firm mission that I can relate to, and in our case, our wonderful seven commitments as well.  

I grew into that. I consider this place home. The only reason why I left, I became Dean of the School of Consciousness and Transformation, loved working with the faculty and students. It was just time for me to have a new experience, and I'm so grateful that I did, to go out and see what else is out there, how other universities are run, and that has really honed in on, I think, giving me really good skills in terms of what it takes to be a Provost.  

So, I came back because I love this place, I love the students. I can relate to our mission and our values. I'm somebody who did not succeed really well in a traditional, kind of banking school reciting, taking tests. I was somebody who enjoyed the experiential, who enjoyed the arts, who thrived under a model of an education, an integral education really, of mind body spirit. I think I, as a staff member and as an administrator, I'm attracted to this place, because really it is about showing up in all the fullness of who you are. Some universities may say that; we actually do practice it. I'm not saying that we're perfect, but certainly, when I walk through the front door, I can believe in who we are, and what we do. I love our programs and there's plenty of time and space for growth, because that's what we do here, and so that's my journey.  

I've been incredibly honored to take this role as Provost. I was telling Brock, many times, our admissions department, they give tours in the building, and I can see the students pass outside my window, and the first question they ask is ‘What is a provost? What do you actually do?’ I can talk to them about, you know, running the academic programs, working with our faculty, working with our non-instructional departments for them. It has been a humbling position. It's been great working with you, Brock, when I'm learning every day. We really teach here at CIIS, you are a continuous student and learner, and that just never stops. In that respect, I am where I need to be. That's what I’d like to say.  

Blomberg: Well, I want to applaud that. [applause] That was brilliant, and it has been such a pleasure being your partner here as President, I'll tell a little bit on you. [Littles: Uh-oh.] Our first time when I met Kathy, she was not yet a member. Well, she had obviously been at CIIS, but she was at another institution, and I was trying to convince her to maybe come back as Provost, and I noticed that she kept referring to CIIS as we. We do this and we do that, [Littles: Absolutely.] and I just love that you still felt so part of the community, and we're just very fortunate to have you. [Littles: Thank you. Thank you.] Actually, you know, in my journey, I also really appreciate that you told the story a little bit about where you were in your life, and how this really was a great spot for your own growth.  

Similarly, for me, that was the case, what really has drawn me to CIIS is the people. [Littles: Yes.]  I mean, there is something about this community that is like no other community that you're ever going to be with, and I think it's because everybody is here for some common purpose, even if they don’t agree what that common purpose is. I had so much fun listening to the community talk about what even the word ‘integral’ means, because there's a lot of wrestling with that. I think when you're in a community that really asks great questions, they may not always have the same answer but that they're wrestling with the great questions. I mean, that says a lot about what you're trying to do, and so I was really drawn to this incredible community of people. I was really drawn, as you said, to the mission. A lot of universities, a lot of organizations have a values statement, or they'll have a mission statement, and we have those, but we really call our values statement commitments. [Littles: Yes.] That speaks much louder and prouder about what we are trying to do, we're taking a stronger stance, and I think that speaks to everything we're doing and I'm having the time of my life here. In this year and half. I would not have predicted that when I first came, but it has been a learning experience in such a great way.  

And I'll leave with this, if you go to almost every single university, one of the words they always talk about is transformational. [Littles: Yes.] We are transformational. I have never seen anyone prove transformational, except for here at CIIS. And I see transformation happen in each person who’s transforming. I see that we're looking to transform society. I see that we want to transform this planet, and I think that is the kind of place that anybody who wants to get jazzed up about would get jazzed up. That's really what drew me here, and I've just grown to love the place more as you say, it's really been a lot of fun so far. I appreciate public programs for inviting us to talk a little bit about that today.  

I think the topic we're supposed to talk about a little bit is what integral education means today, and beyond. I think what I'd like to do for a couple minutes is just talk a little bit about education in the United States, and then you can correct all the mistakes I'm going to make Kathy, because I know you have a lot better answers for these things. I think it's important for us to really understand, if we're going to say where CIIS fits, what the whole marketplace for ideas looks like right now. There are some serious challenges in being a president at a university, or being anyone associated with a university because there are a lot of, you know, headwinds.  

One, and I'm sure everyone knows this, but there's the cost of education. You know, costs are going up. I think if I compare, say, a decade ago, private school universities were around $26,000, and now there are more around $32,000 on average across the United States, and that's adjusted for inflation. [Littles: Right.] It means if a student is graduating with a graduate degree in psychology, the average amount of debt a student has nowadays, get this, not CIIS statistics, this is United States statistics is about $60,000. That's a really big investment for people.  

You have that going on, and at the same time we have a decreasing enrollment, and as we’ve e seen now there's about 5 million less students, I believe, than there was a decade or so ago, looking for education. That makes it more challenging and actually, the number of competitors in higher education is actually growing. Do you have any idea how many colleges, does anyone have any idea how many colleges and universities there are in the United States? [pause] Would you guess it to be more than 1000? [Littles: Yes.] There's 4000. You can imagine if there's 4000 universities, and everyone's trying to grab their attention, that's kind of difficult. Then the other challenges are funding, the state and federal governments have put less money into education than ever before, and it's not easy to get people to open up their pocketbooks.  

Then the final challenge is that there's a changing demographic at universities. There's a lot more non-traditional students or students from different backgrounds, and so not all universities are ready to handle that, and they don't know how to meet students where they are, not like we do here at CIIS. [Littles: Right, mhm.] Those are some of the real challenges in the world of education, but on the other hand, there's some joke about a two handed economist, that’s out there. On the other hand, for the area and the space that CIIS is working in, there's a lot of real positive data.  

You can see I'm using a lot of my economics here and trying to use data to describe things, but in the area of mental health services, the Bureau of Labor Statistics has predicted about a 25% increase in jobs in the area of mental health services over the next decade. If you look at online education, while overall education is falling, online education has gone up by about 2 million during that time. Then in the space of mental health, there's far less stigma than there ever was in the past, so the interest for people to actually, you know, look for mental wellness and be able to provide services is greater than it's ever been before.  

Then the last thing I think that is really exciting on the positive side, and the overall marketplace for ideas, is that there's a lot more interest in what we would call interdisciplinary, or integrated education than ever before. Universities are trying to offer the sorts of things that we're offering, and service learning is such a bigger piece. I think, while there's a lot of challenges, really in our niche, where we are distinctive, where we are that avant garde institution, we can really actually see a lot of positivity for the future in the way education is. 

Littles: That makes a lot of sense. That also means that we're perfectly situated for the past, present, future of education in the United States. I think it's interesting that you started off with cost, because as Provost and as I'm working with chairs, I'm always cognizant around time to degree, you know. How are we accepting students, how long are they taking to complete their degree, because people are very savvy now about education and their time and frankly, their funds and how much it costs, and how when I graduate, am I going to pay back all of these loans. All of this is good, right, knowledge is power.  

That means as a university, we have to offer programs that are timely, that meet the person where they are. I always like to say, come to CIIS if you are ready to explore the full self. If you are ready to hold up the mirror and ask, who am I, and what do I want to contribute to the world. And part of that is, how am I going to pay for this. What programs are out there that will support me and the work that I want to do in the world, and I think we have met that for decades, frankly. I think we have always been ahead of the curve and a lot of universities are catching up. You know, when I went to, you know, my undergraduate and graduate, they weren't doing wellness. They weren't doing whole person learning. We were doing that here at CIIS decades ago, and we've only gotten better.  

I think we've gotten better in several ways, and one of them is expanding the circle, being more inclusive, being more intentional around diversity, equity, and inclusion, and meaning it, right, because our students and our faculty and our staff hold us accountable to that. Nothing but opportunity on the horizon. I think that one of our strengths is the complexity and the creativity around our academic programs, right. I can't tell you the amount of times that I have heard from students, ‘I've been looking for this program for years. I finally found it, and I can now show up, whether it be our Integrative Health or Expressive Arts, sit down, be led in a cohort space by faculty, where I'm seen and heard. And while we may think that is an easy thing to do, it really isn't, so that people find their place and their passion and the faculty are the engine, right. They are the mentors, they're the innovators, and they are the creatives, the therapists who really are not only inspirational teachers and amazing scholars but have the ability to lead a student from the classroom to opening up to what I want to contribute to the world. That is a skill that has to be done with head and heart. I never lose sight of that at CIIS, that this is a place where we hold spirituality at the center. We don't define it for you. That's part of the exploration. It provides us a platform to lead with love and empathy and compassion in all the work that we do, whether you're a therapist or an anthropologist, right, whether you're in Women's Spirituality, or you're getting your counseling degree. It's all head and heart first, in your kind of spiritual grounding. I think that's integral education. That's integral education, that's a big piece of it. 

Blomberg: I love, first off, just hearing you talk, I can hear the passion. I can hear that feeling of our incredibly talented faculty, who care so deeply about our mission and what we do. I remember when I was asking you in one of our conversations to explain a little bit about what was so exciting about CIIS. You used the word, it's an invitation. [Littles: Yes.] I really love that, because everyone's invited to come and explore, and we do have these incredibly complicated and creative programs to do that. That's unique.  

In terms of organizing a university, I'm so used to seeing universities organized as Arts and Sciences, Social Sciences, Humanities. We have three schools that are expected in the future, the School of Undergraduate Studies, and then one that focuses on Psychology and Health, and one that focuses on Consciousness and Transformation. [Kathy: Yes.] That, I think, speaks loud and proud about this invitation that we have.  

I want to highlight something that you said in passing because there was so much to unpack in what you just said, you talked a little bit about, because it's so important to us, diversity, equity, and inclusion. I know that this has been something the university cares deeply about, and we've invested in a whole division there. I know your experience in the past, and you've actually brought on some real, you know, faculty resources around that. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, you know, how that's unfolding, and how you see that we could be a radical leader in that area.  

Littles: Sure. Before I answer that question, I do want to say that one of the reasons why I came back, Brock, and I may not have told you this in person, and this is the perfect time in front of this audience, [laughs] was because you had Rachel Bryant in the role of Chief Diversity Officer VP of diversity, equity, and inclusion here at CIIS, and that Rachel reported to you as President, the role reported to you, that this was not just a tokenized position at CIIS, which is typical in a lot of universities, believe me. I had the role before at another university, lack of resources and so forth. That was a shift for me, that positioned me to see that we are cognizant and aware of the role and the importance that it plays for our community. In expanding our community, and I think that's really critical at CIIS.  

Now when I came in, of course that role was already established, but I also knew because I knew many of the faculty, although there were many that, you know, that were new since 2019. I knew that what was lacking, and the faculty would embrace here, faculty development, real support and resources. So, I created a dean position, Dean of Faculty Development, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. Dr. Danielle Drake, who was, or still is, a Professor in Expressive Arts, a fantastic professor, great program. What Danielle has done is created an office for faculty support. We're doing writing retreats, we're putting together workshops for faculty in terms of their own professional development. That's so critical, because many people assume that once you get the faculty job, you just do you know your research and your teaching, but we all need professional development so she's doing that with the faculty and really listening to the needs at every point in their career. For new faculty, we have a great mentoring program. We all need mentors. Eventually I'd like to see mentors for every stage in a faculty life, early, mid-career, and when you're headed towards retirement, because retirement is great, but it can be scary for a lot of people. What am I going to be, what am I going to do afterwards. The mentoring part is absolutely critical, and then just kind of the nuts and bolts of partnering with me, and being a good listener, a good steward, and a good leader for our faculty here at CIIS and I know they appreciate it. They really appreciate the level of decision making, many of which are hard decisions, in a timely manner, but for me that is the one role that has been a game changer. It really has.  

I believe, you know, good things to come for the faculty, I'd like to see us grow. I'd like to see us, and we will be more robust with our recruitment, and retention. Retention of faculty is huge, they have options, right. [Blomberg: Mhm.] Especially our faculty of color, who often, in the academy, this isn’t just at CIIS. It's a hard job. There's a lot going on there for all faculty but I'm going to specifically say faculty of color in the classroom and the dynamics and the complexity of what that means. Danielle is providing excellent leadership. I told them this at my first faculty council meeting, I'm the Provost for everybody. Not just for some, Provost for everybody, and I know that they heard me and expect me to be a good steward. For them, and to hold faculty governance in a way, which leads us to the next 10 years.  

Blomberg: Well, I can tell you I hear it from everyone in the community that it's really having an impact, and it's allowing us to live true to our commitments around the D.E.I. Also, I'll just add even more of a pat on your back because I think you're also doing it in the student affairs area. I know our Dean of Students Fraylanie Aglipay has really emboldened her group, too. [Littles: She’s fantastic.] So, when students have needs, and are looking for more resources and more capacity building that we're doing more now than we've done in the past.  

So, you talked about growth in what you were just saying. [Littles: Yes.] I do think we are at this point, when I said in the beginning some of the challenges and some of the opportunities where there really is an opportunity, we're at this inflection point where we could be leaning into more growth. [Littles: Yes, for sure.] That’s got to be done through some kind of a strategic thinking, we’re working on our strategic plan. You know, one of the things that I would love to get your thoughts on is, we are such a sort of, cool, edgy avant garde San Francisco community. I think that's something that I know a lot of people are looking for, but getting access to that across the world isn't always so easy.  

First of all, the cost of living here in San Francisco is astronomical. Also, you know, that may not necessarily work if somebody has different, you know, needs with their family, or they may not be able to be here. I would love to know a little bit about new programs and also online programs. I'd like to pick your brain a little bit if you wouldn't mind, because I know, as President, I'm always happy to look for yes, but I'd love to know what you see as the potential opportunities and challenges with online education with what we're trying to offer.  

Littles: Yes, well, you know, I ran online education for a while looking at Professor Montuori from Transformative Studies. I really believe, and I'm going to shout this from the mountaintop. CIIS has been doing online education since 1994. Okay, we are not new at online education, when the country had to pivot to online education and a lot of them were struggling, a lot of our colleges and universities were struggling. I wasn't here, but we had programs like Transformative Inquiry that were already online. Other programs in the School of Consciousness and Transformation that were already online had been online, frankly for decades. We helped the rest of the school transition to online education. We have been doing it for a long time and doing it really well.  

Right, so it isn't just this notion of faculty showing up and lecturing online for two hours, and having students take notes, and I'll see you on Thursday type thing. We practice presence, we practice creativity, we practice innovation that can be done and has been done online. Our graduates leave here, and this isn't just me making it up. They have reflected back to me, that was the best education I ever could have had. The online platform for us has opened this up globally. Now we have students from Africa, and Australia, and Europe, who come to CIIS and can now have the CIIS experience online. Part of that is also being participants in our intensives. Most of our programs hold intensives if you're online, you know. You meet together for three or four days during the semester here in San Francisco, get to know your faculty, break bread together, you start your classes. There's that intimacy that we have built into our online programs here at CIIS, but I think has helped in the overall experience for our students, and they leave transformed. That can happen and has happened for a long time online.  

We have many programs that are still face to face and they're extremely successful. No plans in changing, right, especially our counseling programs, the intimacy, and somebody said that the counselor is reading the body language, seeing, feeling the energy as you're speaking to clients, and we're holding on to that because that's who we are, and that won't change. We are a university, CIIS, that can and has held both. That's part of the beauty of integral education is in that in both platforms, face to face and online, you can show up as a whole person. You can deliver a holistic education, where mind, body, spirit are centered. Even if you're a thousand, you're half a world away, right, or if you're just sitting right across from one another. Not every university can do that. We can and have done it here, and we have a great track record of doing so. In that respect, so proud that we made it through, you know, this large pandemic which devastated us all. I think we have come through stronger. I think we have had the opportunity to kind of reinvent who we are and who our audience is, and it's expanded and that's exciting. While still trying to stay true to our identity and who we are in our history, which I think is so critical.  

Blomberg: Well, and I think you raised a lot of really good points that doesn't have to be a one size fits all model. [Littles: Right.] For certain types of education, you know, and I've seen this, we've all seen this in the workplace, right. Some people want more distance, and then sometimes it's important to have those moments when everyone clusters. and I think the intensives is a great way that we do that, for a lot of the stuff we do in the School of Consciousness and Transformation. I also think, like you said for counseling, a lot of the, you know, that high touch opportunities are really important. 

Littles: Before you go on, I want to just give a shout out to our clinics, [Blomberg: Okay!] because that is the hands-on experience that our students get here at CIIS as before they become, you know, therapists. They are in the midst of becoming therapists. We're doing works at our clinics that are really community-based here in the city and county in San Francisco. I think one of the things that I love about CIIS is there is this kind of community grounding here, around mission and in our neighborhood. I think that our presence, I’m looking forward to that expanding, in terms of health services and counseling. Literally, everybody just a couple of blocks away, there are people who are in need of our services. Our faculty are primed to support and nurture our students through what it means to become of service to our community. [Blomberg: Absolutely.] I think that's a CIIS kind of way of operating, how are we of service beyond ourselves, when we leave the building. I think in every program, every aspect, certainly, in our academic programs that’s what we lean towards.  

Blomberg: It’s what the world needs right now, if you look at the broken space a lot of us are in. Again, we’re seeing there’s a lot of demand for that. We didn’t even talk about our China program, [Littles: Right. It’s amazing.] there’s so much more to talk about.  

Littles: Well, since you mentioned our MAPS programs, our China programs we do offer certificates in human sexuality, and then psychedelic scholarship, as well. There are opportunities for people who either don't have the time to become full-time students to also get the CIIS experience through these certificates, as well, and we're expanding. I always say, kind of, let's pump our brakes and do this right. Get our market research data together, get faculty on board, we want to hear from everybody on what direction we should go. Expansion is slow and steady, the name of the game. 

Blomberg: Well, I think, you know, it's that energy, there's this constant, sort of tension on the creative side, because there's always so much energy around that. [Littles: Right, especially here.] I appreciate your ability to be the person running the orchestra, the maestro. [Littles: Yes.] Yeah, so I think it's important also to point while, and I appreciate you bringing that up. In addition to our schools, we do have incubators, if you will, for a lot of other ways that you can be connected to CIIS whether that is through, you know, CPTR, whether it's through our MAPS program, and even this- public programs, we have certificates that you can engage with. There's a lot out there, and I think these are ways over time we may find that we want to continue to expand and look. Like I said in the beginning, I'm having a lot of fun, [Littles: Yes, that’s important.] getting a chance to watch all the great work that our faculty are doing, and all the scholarship that our students do. I loved being at graduation last year, and listening to the topics that our dissertation, that our students are looking into. We really are extending the boundaries of human wisdom, so that's exciting.  

Littles: Definitely, sand I always want to add that our student services, kind of our non- academic departments, like IT, student affairs, financial aid, the library, all run so beautifully, that that is absolutely critical to the student experience and by extension, the faculty experience. Because if those things are not aligned, it undermines all the work that we're trying to do. I just want to kind of acknowledge and thank all of the deans, all the staff who really hold CIIS front facing together, and really exhibit the warmth and the inspiration, the creativity for our students and for our whole community. Everybody knows, you know, both how to be running at an optimal rate, right. As Provost, everybody kind of looks at me as the academic person and I am. I also hold kind of the non-academic offices, as well, pretty much all of them. They have to be optimal, right, they have to be in support of our community, and they do a really, really wonderful job. 

Blomberg: I think you really raise a great point. This goes back to some of the challenges of running a university, you think a university is a bunch of chalkboards and rooms that people go in, and they all break and go back, but there's so much support that's necessary, to be able to do it. The expectation of students now is much higher than it's ever been. [Littles: Absolutely.] When we talk about our commitments, I know a lot of students when they come here, their expectation of their classroom experience is almost like you're no longer on planet Earth, and I mean that in the best sense of it, you know. We aspire to do that, but obviously everyone's coming here with some humanity, so we don't always reach that. That does mean, you know, we have to be able to provide resources for IT. It does mean, particularly if we're going to encourage, you know, a much more diverse student body groups, you know, or minoritized populations, we need to meet people where they are, and be able to understand, and be culturally competent, and provide resources if students need those things. That's a very different model of higher education than maybe it was, when CIIS started in the 60s.  

Littles: Certainly, and it's exciting to see an uptick in veterans that are attending CIIS, it's very exciting. Certainly, our students that have a disability have increased here at CIIS. Even, you know, the students are amazing, because one of the things, and maybe this just has to address with the students that we attract, but very vocal. Many of them are activists. When I get emails, and our Dean of Students gets emails about body diversity, frankly, and other types of diversity, we better be able to respond to that, and have answers, and support, and resources in a timely manner. Thus far, we've been able to meet the moment, and I expect that to expand. As you open the door more, as we should, the more diverse populations come in, and we have to be ready. You invite them, you have to be ready, right, you're not kind of putting things together as they're at the table waiting for the meal. Right, and so, I think that we are a work in progress. Certainly, I'm very excited about the expansion of the student population that we have. Certainly, if you live outside of the Bay Area, you still need access to all of these offices, and answers, and resources and we ought to be able to meet that. 

Blomberg: 100% and I do think that this is a big commitment of the university, and we're here, it's an educational university, so we're going to get educated ourselves. [Littles: Yes, of course. Always.] We're going to learn more. In our current strategic plan, we're centering it around spirituality, and I've also heard the word spirited action. I like both of those, great ways to describe, you know, the special sauce, or the honey that feeds our hive. I'm curious to know, in thinking that through, whether it's in the classroom, or whether it's co-curricular experiences, or whether it's the history, you know, how do you see both spirituality and spirited action exhibit itself in who we are? 

Littles: There is no one size fits all here at CIIS. It really does depend sometimes on the school, it may depend on your department. It may even depend on your particular faculty, and how they want to bring that into the curriculum and support that journey for the students. That's the beauty of it, right, that we have a lot of students that have trauma around their spiritual journey as they come in the door, and how do we meet that, how do we address that. We have a lot of students that are, you know, devout in their spiritual and religious practices. How do we meet that? How do we support that, and then we have those who are just a blank slate, you know, what does this mean? That's why I'm here, right, to explore that. We ought to be able to meet all of them. I think that we do. I think that we do.  

I thought that the exercise around the strategic plan has been one of the more CIIS exercises that I have experienced since coming back, and it has resulted in, I think, a very accessible, inspiring, and exciting strategic plan that we've already kind of socialized throughout the university, and we hope will be approved soon. Certainly, there have been wonderful discussions that have resulted in a plethora of ideas and ways in which spirituality shows up in our lives and that's CIIS, right. That is the secret sauce, as you like to say, the journey of discovering who am I? Grounded in spirituality can be a very uplifting and transformational experience for a lot of people, and we want to continue that. 

Blomberg: Well, and I appreciate you talking a little bit, so some of this may have seem a little insider about our strategic plan, which we’ll put on our website when the trustees endorse it, which we have an expectation that they will be doing in the next upcoming months. I do think it is indicative, this process has been indicative of the kind of collaboration with a common language and purpose, where not everyone always agrees, but everyone is invited to engage. That’s been really, I think, a pleasure to watch the community get together, and watch some of the trustees actually engage in conversations. I see some of the trustees are here in the room, which is wonderful to see, as well, to see them support CIIS through so many different ways.  

I'll say what's exciting also from a personal level, is knowing that this seeking of meaning and purpose, and looking outside of yourself for that, has been something that I knew in one specific tradition growing up. In the year and a half I've been here, I've learned, my heart’s exploded in a whole new way to explore that. I think that that's indicative of the kind of experiences I know I've heard a lot of our students talk about during their journey, or the faculty, or the staff. I do think it may not be programmed in the same way that you're going to take a comprehensive examination on spirituality, or something like that, but I do think, because it's so part of our DNA, and so part of how we're thinking creatively to put programming in, it's going to be something that everyone will wrestle with.  

It’s not a comfortable conversation for everyone because of the points you're making, people are coming from some of their own traditions, and they may take with that a lot of understandable concerns for what these words mean and where that comes from. It's neat to see the university look at this. I think that's really kind of what integral education is, to keep wrestling with all of these things, while at the end of the journey you'll have a PhD, or master's degree, or a BA. 

Littles: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I was with a provost colleague last week, and her university is in Texas. If she's watching, hello. She said one thing about CIIS is, you own your mission and identity. I think that's our reputation, and I'll take that any day of the week, because it's something to be proud of to own. Right, to embody and to be inspired by. I think all of us, all of us, faculty, staff, students, administrators, ought to think about that, you know, I think of it often, and I will share with everybody. In one of our executive leadership meetings, Rachel Bryant says, we are only here for a season, right, we're stewards of this place, not going to be here forever. We're not going to live forever, but while we are here, once we enter that front door, to really understand our mission and our purpose, and our history, because it's beautiful. We have a great history here, and to really embody that and lead with love. That's what I try to do every day. Sometimes, I come up a little bit short because I'm human, right? That is really the embodiment of what it means to be here, and to be of service to all of you, and the faculty feel that way, as well, because I believe they believe they are of service to teach our students. I think a lot of our students leave with that narrative and understanding about the next step in their lives. 

Blomberg: You know, in trying to summarize a lot of what we're talking about, because, you know, there's so much here, but it may feel like it's all over the place at the same time. There's something that's really distinctive, and I can tell you, going back to the point of the marketplace for ideas, that's not always the case. If you look at a lot of colleges and universities, it's really hard to know the difference between one university and another university a lot of times. If you're really trying to describe to a person what's special about you, you know, to say, we have small classes, or we have big classes, you know, those are not always that meaningful, you know. We believe in transformation, as I said. Unless you can demonstrate that it's transformational education, it really doesn't go that far.  

I will say here, I really appreciated your comment about we all own this mission. We're all carrying this torch. This is something that Haridas Chaudhuri started. This will be our 55th, and it's not called double nickels, it's the emerald anniversary that we have coming up at CIIS. I know that the original incarnation is different than it is today, but at the same time, we are still following a lot of those same traditions, by mixing a lot of East West philosophies, by celebrating not just the philosophical component, but also the healing component. It is a little different than it was, but at the same time, I think we have held on. I would like to believe you and me as two leaders here that we continue to be the kind of trustees and stewards. Rachel's right, you know, we only have these jobs for a season, and what's going to be exciting is what happens during that season. [Littles: Yes, it’s an open book.] It's a distinctive place, and I think that's why when we're summarizing about that, you know, what is integral integration, how it works in the marketplace, and what the future is. I think the future is very bright for us and where we are in that spot.  

Littles: I agree, very exciting. 

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Thank you for listening to the CIIS Public Programs Podcast. Our talks and conversations are presented live in San Francisco, California. We recognize that our university’s building in San Francisco occupies traditional, unceded Ramaytush Ohlone lands. If you are interested in learning more about native lands, languages, and territories, the website native-land.ca is a helpful resource for you to learn about and acknowledge the Indigenous land where you live. 
 
Podcast production is supervised by Kirstin Van Cleef at CIIS Public Programs. Audio production is supervised by Lyle Barrere at Desired Effect. The CIIS Public Programs team includes Izzy Angus, Kyle DeMedio, Alex Elliott, Emlyn Guiney, Patty Pforte, and Nikki Roda. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe wherever you find podcasts, visit our website ciis.edu, and connect with us on social media @ciispubprograms. 
 
CIIS Public Programs commits to use our in-person and online platforms to uplift the stories and teachings of Black, Indigenous, and other people of color; those in the LGBTQIA+ community; and all those whose lives emerge from the intersections of multiple identities.  

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